Another Requested Follow up to the Cheating Post
From “Next article: Don’t Be The Accessory To Cheating, Either. I am truly sick of seeing intelligent women get themselves entangled with someone who has absolutely no intention of leaving their girlfriend, protesting that this is exactly what they want because they don’t *want* a real relationship/non-Jewish boyfriend, and then having an occasionally exciting but generally miserable time of it for years. It’s unethical to be the cause of someone else’s pain, but quite apart from that, they’re really not doing themselves any favours.”
There are plenty of “reasons” why people sleep with otherwise attached individuals, from the folks who honestly believe when the cheater tells them it’s “ok” or their SO doesn’t care and they have an understanding, on up to the people who prefer attached partners because they don’t have to worry about the relationship growing past “booty call” or people who really just get a kick out of seducing other people’s partners and the power trip they get from it.
Having been one of the former, I know how easy it is to get suckered in. And I understand the desire to believe the best of someone you have the hots for. But, the fact remains that unless you speak to their SO about the situation, I wouldn’t go there. Hugely bad idea that can cost years of enmity and bad feelings. And as someone replied in the last post, if your SO doesn’t want to hear it, see it, find out anything, odds are pretty good that they really aren’t comfortable with it and just don’t want to be the bad guy or accused of denying who you really are. It’s time for some gut-wrenchingly honest talks and renegotiation, at that point.
Now, as to the latter: KNOCK IT OFF.
Sleeping with someone who is attached and NOT in a relationship where that’s ok is really, really shitty. And it is NOT THE FAULT OF THE CHEATERS SO (Significant Other), EITHER! JUST KNOCK THAT ENABLING BULLSHIT RIGHT OFF AND QUIT LYING TO YOURSELF!!!!
Seriously. It is not the duty of the cheated upon party to prevent the cheater from straying, not in this world nor in any other. S/He isn’t cheating because their SO has gained weight, doesn’t have time for them since the kids came along, or whatever their myriad reasons are. IF the relationship is really that bad, tell Mr./Ms. Wonderful to break up with the current relationship and call you back when they’re actually available.
Granted, then you get the people who will flat out lie to you about being in a relationship at all. They’ll tell you they’re separated, in the process of a divorce, just divorced, long divorced, never married, etc…
Here’s a few hints for recognizing these charmers:
1. If you can only call them at work or on their cell, never at home.
2. If you are not allowed to know where they live.
3. You never meet any of their friends.
4. The places you can be seen in public are extremely limited, and the times.
5. No PDA in public places, ever.
6. Tan line where the wedding ring lives.
There’s more, but honestly, a lot of times you’ll just have to trust your instincts. If something feels hinky, then don’t date that person. Some philanderers are really, really damn good at it, and may be able to snow the most cynical and intelligent of people.
And seriously, if you’re one of the folks who counts coup by sleeping with other people’s partners, grow the fuck up. Yes, it is ultimately the responsibility of the person in the relationship to say NO to your skeezy ass, but willfully pursuing people who are off-limits is really fucked up, and you should probably seek some therapy to help deal with that library of issues you’ve got there.
While we’re on the subject of enabling, as well. This also goes for the friends of the cheater who provide alibis, cover for them, act as lookout, whatever. Knock that shit off, too. A lot of times these folks wouldn’t consider cheating themselves, but seem to develop some sort of weird ethical blind spot when it comes to this behavior in their best friend or good buddy. “That’s just the way X is. Anyone who dates X should know that.”
Did you TELL the person dating X that that’s the way they are? Did you warn them? Because odds are good X didn’t tell them. And if no one tells them, how are they to know? Hmmmm…
To some people’s way of thinking it makes me a bad friend, but if I hang out with someone, and I know they can’t keep it in their pants and someone who wants to date them asks, I’ll tell them. I don’t think of it as cock-blocking, I think of it as shielding someone from avoidable heartbreak. NOW if after getting the information that X cheats, a lot, and they think that they will be THE ONE to change X from a philandering asshead to the Perfect Mate, well, then, I think they get everything they deserve, but that’s for another rant.
Polimicks 
I think the “I can change him” is a great rant, and you should do it here. 🙂
It’s one of my favorites.
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Oh, agreed!
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This is exactly why if someone approaches me and says they have an open marrage/ relationship, I tell them to have their partner come tell me that. If it’s a truely open and healthy relationship I feel it’s only appropriate to be resepectful of their partner as I would expect to be.
We won’t even get into the crazies who think open means “I can land him for myself”, and refuse to listen when he says repeatedly that I’m not going anywhere. That’s a crazy of a different color.
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So yes to be the grouch here
Saying that one person’s poly is wrong is just as bad as monagamous people who say that all poly and openh relationships re just different ways of cheating.
Yes the guy who has a don’t ask, don’t tell relationship may be a douchebag, or that just may be the way that that couple’s/ groups relationship happens to work.
I fyou are not comfortable with that, ok then don’t play with, get involved with, that person. However, making the blanket statemnet that thst kind of relationship is wrong, or flawed, is no better or more fair than saying all alternative relationships are wrong.
Just my rant
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Re: So yes to be the grouch here
Did I say it was wrong? No.
Did I say I won’t go near that? Yes.
Do I think it’s a bad idea to get involved in a relationship like that? Yes
Did I say the people involved need to figure out what’s really going on? Yes.
Do I believe that? Yes.
Is it possible that a relationship can work that way? Yes, it’s possible.
Do I think it’s likely? I don’t, but then again I don’t know everything. It could happen. Some people might thrive like that.
But most people probably won’t.
Because successful open and poly relationships require even more honest and open communication than regular relationships, and of a more difficult sort. When one partner shuts down part of the communication process, it makes the entire process more complicated.
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Re: So yes to be the grouch here
Ayup.
If there’s no communication, chances are that much greater that there’s some sort of lack of honesty there. And if somebody doesn’t want to know, chances are good that they’re uncomfortable with the poly situation. The person that assumes their partner is just fine that way is usually a person that’s just fooling him/herself to be able to continue in a “poly” relationship/lifestyle instead of confronting a larger possible issue in the primary relationship.
IMHO
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Re: So yes to be the grouch here
Okie, I stand corrected, clarrified, and contrite. Just making sure I am still on the hugable list 🙂
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Re: So yes to be the grouch here
I think everyone’s a bit touchy right now.
You’re still huggable.
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Re: So yes to be the grouch here
Poly =/= cheating. In poly relationships, everyone knows what’s going on and has consented to it. appears to be referring specifically to cheating rather than consensual polyamorous relationships here, and for the record, so was I.
In fact, I repeated urged little ms “it doesn’t count as infidelity because we’ve not had penetrative sex and anyway I could never date someone who wasn’t Jewish” to think about turning it into an honest polyamorous relationship, and at the very least, letting the other girlfriend know so that she could make an informed choice. She screamed blue murder at the very idea. She even had the nerve to get offended when the rumours started up about her and the bloke she was having an affair with, because *obviously* they were groundless, and it wasn’t anything to do with her that these rumours were making the other girlfriend terribly distressed and exacerbating her mental health problems.
In the other situation I’m referring to, again it is definitely cheating, and a huge effort is being made to keep it secret. My friend, and I’m still friends with this one, was a little dishonest and pretended for a while that she wasn’t sure whether he was still with his girlfriend or not, even though she did know for certain. Again, the girlfriend would be terribly distressed if she knew that her partner was cheating on her, and as far as she knows it’s a monogamous relationship that will hopefully turn into marriage.
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While I’m fairly monogamously wired and have never cheated on anyone I considered myself in a relationship with, there’s been several times I’ve turned out to be ‘the other woman’.
How much obligation is there?
If I think I’m going to get initmate with someone I’ll ask “So, do you have a girlfriend?”
If the answer is basically no(yes but we’re separated/it’s not serious/we broke up<-this is the one that’s been misused on me the most) I’ll usually take it at face value. I’m not going to do a background check on someone that doesn’t owe me money, live with me, or is otherwise going to have the ability to seriously fuck me over. When I got the offer to go to the UK with Mike, yeah, I talked to as many exs as I could find.
When I’m single, I’m not looking for a husband, I’m looking for someone who makes for enjoyable company. If that person turns out to be long-term material, great, if not, fine, good times, we part ways as friends with no hard feelings. I don’t engage people I know are in monogamous relationships, I take no joy in causing strife between couples.
Unless they lied to me about having a girlfriend/wife/WTFever, not because they’re cheating, but because they’re liars. I’ve got plenty of lying friends, but I generally don’t give them the opportunity to piss me off. Of course by the time I find out they were full of shit, it’s too late; someone saw us walk off together and GF shows up in my face three days later.
Should I ask for references? How shitty am I?
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Having been in that situation a couple of times, I totally sympathize.
In the first case, he didn’t tell me he had a girlfriend until we were in the act of having sex, because I’m a biter and a scratcher and he didn’t want me to leave any marks (biggest mistake of his life, he lost a lot of blood that night). I did not know the girlfriend existed prior to that moment.
The second instance, I knew both parties fairly well, and took his word at face value, which turned out to be a poor decision on my part.
In the case of guys who flat out lie to you, there really isn’t anything you CAN do, particularly if you don’t know any of their friends or associates who can either vouch for them or warn you.
In my case, I really should have known better and did the investigating myself. I knew both of them. I do bear some responsibility for that.
So, short answer, if it’s a hook-up and have no other information than what he’s giving you, I don’t think you’re at all shitty. You just got suckered in by an asshole. You didn’t set out to sleep with someone who was otherwise committed, you got burned.
If it’s people you know and have access to both of them, then… I felt really shitty about that for quite a while. I knew what I should have done, and I didn’t because I let NRE cloud my thinking.
Does that help?
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Yes, thank you.
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