On Dworkin and all heterosexual sex as rape.
First, I would like to say that the quote about heterosexual sex being rape is ALWAYS taken out of context, and cited wrongly. She did not call it rape, she said it was coercive in nature. I understand what Dworkin was trying to say, however, I feel that she is A. wrong and B. saying it badly.
The problem with the idea of the inequalities between the genders leading to a power imbalance that means that women can never fully freely consent is that it denies women the agency of their own sexuality.
Ok, that’s a little “academic speaky” even for me.
Dworkin, in her book Intercourse, posited that because men hold the bulk of power in our society as it currently stands, that women, as an underclass, could not fully be said to consent because so much of our identity/survival is dependent on some man somewhere, and that traditional heterosexual sex roles were an extension of this inequality. Or at least this is what I take away from it.
Yes, I totally think this is bullshit.
Having been raped, and having consented freely and enthusiastically to sex, I can tell you that I am WELL aware of the difference.
Not to mention, that to believe this is to deny women their own sexual agency.
And as I’ve said before, I no more need idealogical young prunes telling me how to express my sexuality than I need conservative old prunes telling me how to express my sexuality. Slut-shaming women in the name of liberating women is still slut-shaming them. And I don’t care if you “have my best interests at heart” I don’t need your patronizing bullshit, and neither does anyone else.
Polimicks 
Can I get an AMEN from the congregation?
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I’d like to think I have an open mind, but I’ve never been able to get through her or Mary Daly’s writings. On the one hand, I think there was a need for their rhetoric in earlier decades in that the shock and reaction of them was part of the point. Now? Not so much.
It’s like Susan McClary’s book, Feminine Endings. while sometimes she makes a good point or two, I have to wonder just whose experience she’s describing. It certainly isn’t that of a woman in composition, a field she decries as being elitist.
there’s a connection to sex and composition I’m just not making on antihistamines. Lemme get some brain back, and I’ll get back to you. If you haven’t read Elaine Barkin’s response to Susan McClary, it’s awesome. let me know and I can send you a pdf or give you a link on jstor.
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Oh great, now I’m all sorts of pissed off.
She obviously thinks any kind of sex is ‘degrading’ to her and is projecting it onto women in general.
So if I’m bigger and stronger than my partner, am I raping him? What if he’s on top? Am I allowing him to dominate me? What if we do doggie style most of the time because it’s what feels the best? Am I repressing his sexuality? Am I repressing mine by being careful not to injure him?
I do not need my partner, I’d probably be financially and socially better off without him. He REALLY doesn’t need me, he could easily find someone nicer and better looking to make sure he remembers to eat. We’re together because we love each other.
Men are delicate and easily broken.
Argue your limitations, and sure enough, they’re yours.
GRRR.
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I know this probably makes me a bad feminist, but it’s stuff like this that makes me twitchy when a feminist refers to other women as ‘sisters.’ Because I only ever hear that term used when the ideology expressed amounts to ‘don’t let old white men tell you what to do, let me tell you what to do instead.’
And being told it’s for my own good? Not even a new argument. Here’s a crazy thought, ‘sister,’ I’ll decide what’s in my best interest and if that disagrees with your delicate sensibilities, too damn bad.
Moar quote marks means moar rage.
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I had issues with the power dynamic in heterosexual relations as Dworkin described them. And she never addressed the issue, to my knowledge, of sexual relations between men and women that inverted the power roles for each gender. I am speaking not only of D/s relations, but also more vanilla type of sexual relations where the woman is clearly in control more so than the man.
What also irritated me was her stance on porn. She totally took the personal agency that women have in porn (and there are exceptions to be sure) away. Women are paid more than men, and many women find themselves liberated by their performances.
There’s a whole lot more, but this is probably not the forum for that discussion, lol.
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Can I request a linkpost with links to all the “Rape Myth #N” posts? I’d like to write about it, but it’d be helpful to have them all in one place.
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